and the atm and the tax taxes, reduce dividend and capital gains taxes. that's 6 trillion. what he's saying tonight is he's going to pay for it by closing loopholes or preferences but won't tell you which ones. maybe the chain can capitalize on that as john said earlier, but i think it does beg the question, why couldn't barack obama capitalize on that. >> rose: kathy, you wanted to say something. >> charlie i was wondering halfway through the debate whether the campaign had made a strategic decision, the likability advantage that the president has is so valuable to them that they didn't want to jeopardize that by him attacking mitt romney and coming across as unlikeable or less likeable, because you know it was astonishing that he didn't go after mitt romney. i was just talking to david -- in the room just a couple minutes ago, he made the case far more convincingly, far more aggressively and concisely for what president obama was trying to lay out the next four years than obama himself did up on the stage. i mean there was just time and again mitt romney managed to seize